Ep. 264 "How to land a job during a potential recession"

For months now, we’ve heard talk about a possible recession. As time passes, possibilities increase, uncertainty raises, and so does panic, especially as a recent-grad or soon to be college graduate.

Even so, six months ago I recorded this episode with my friend Adam Broda, HM at Amazon and career coach, and we talked about what you need to do to prepare yourself for today’s job market, the strategies you should be following and where you should be looking.

I’ve brought back this episode now so you can prepare yourself and make your career and job search recession-proof.

Listen to this episode now, share with a friend that might need it too and leave a review!

Need extra help? Schedule a FREE Career Strategy Session with my team of experts TODAY and get closer to landing your dream job.

Let’s connect! 

I want to hear from you, so please do NOT hesitate to reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Episode Produced by: Sofia Rojas

Transcript

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:20:13
Speaker 1
Welcome to the How to Get a Job podcast. In this podcast, we help take away that fear of graduating without a job and instead teach you the strategies and skills required to land your dream job. So if you're ready to master your career, land the job of your dreams, Listen for more. All right. Welcome back to this episode.

00:00:20:13 - 00:00:42:14
Speaker 1
And today I have a special guest. I have a good friend, Adam Broda. He is the founder of Broda Coaching. He's a fellow LinkedIn content creator and a career coach. And I just enjoy having conversations with Adam. And so I asked him to come back to the podcast because Adam is just a wealth of knowledge. And just sometimes I have conversations with him and I just like, I wish we were just recording this.

00:00:43:14 - 00:00:45:28
Speaker 1
And so. Welcome. How's it going?

00:00:46:20 - 00:01:00:10
Speaker 2
It's going great. Good to be here again. I think it's it's always a pleasure coming back to the the podcast and having good, open, honest, sometimes ridiculous conversation about how things work in the real world. So thanks for having me back.

00:01:00:18 - 00:01:22:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So, Adam, we're 2022 as we were kind of talking, you know, we started our conversation talking about how about some, some weird times right now with tech, a lot of technology companies are, their stock has been down this quarter and so you're seeing just signs of a recession coming. You know, we're not there yet. We could we could potentially be there.

00:01:22:11 - 00:01:35:22
Speaker 1
We're not officially don't know until two quarters of down, but how do you see working in tech? How are you seeing this affect the job markets for job seekers currently graduating this semester or graduating soon?

00:01:36:29 - 00:02:07:08
Speaker 2
Well, lots of questions to unpack there. I think there's some of this is not a surprise. Let's start by saying that that you saw on the tech side of things 2020 and 2021 were unprecedented years. Right. Everything went virtual. Companies like Peloton and Zoom just exploded because they were necessary. Right. Amazon, even as big and as complex, complicated as that company is.

00:02:07:08 - 00:02:29:20
Speaker 2
It was it was necessary. It was essential. You weren't going to the store. You weren't driving. You weren't going to gym class, you weren't going to school. What you're seeing right now is probably a combination of a natural course of let's just use the word shrinkage, right, that those companies are trying to return back to a pre-pandemic state and there's not as much volume.

00:02:29:20 - 00:02:56:15
Speaker 2
Right. We're not you don't need to be on Zoom as much or you don't need to be on, you know, subscription gym classes. You can go back to normal and that's planned to some degree. I think what's compounding the weirdness is, is number one, lingering COVID effects, right. We're still not entirely sure what's going on there. There's shortages and and things that have stuck around and will stick around for some time that are having an effect.

00:02:57:05 - 00:03:21:14
Speaker 2
And then lastly, we've just got a weird, you know, economic situation with inflation and also, again, shortages and things. The job market is strange, but all that is to say is I, I wouldn't rush into quitting my job right now. Let's put it that way, that I think recession is probably a strong word. I don't think we're anywhere near where we were in 2008, 2009.

00:03:21:14 - 00:03:44:07
Speaker 2
And I'm not an economic person, so don't take that with a grain of salt. I read Morning Brew, so I’m as qualified as maybe that that that email newsletter is. All it is to say, yeah, from my seat as a hiring manager in tech, what I'm seeing is not necessarily universal Hiring freezes happening, but many companies are hitting the pause and reflect.

00:03:44:07 - 00:04:21:24
Speaker 2
Button. Right now, some of those are more public, right? Meta has already announced pretty intensive freeze and even to some degree they're redacting roles that were offered, which is rare. You don't see that all that often. I think what that indicates is just companies are bracing for more uncertainty. And and to to my point is, when you see those flags go up, it's probably a good time to say, hey, you know, if I'm going to make a job change or if I'm going to career transition or if I'm going to quit my job, I just want to make sure I have a well-defined plan of action.

00:04:21:25 - 00:04:24:17
Speaker 2
It's not a good time to float. Let's put it that way.

00:04:24:24 - 00:04:45:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, I want to unpack some of those things. Like, I agree. I feel like a lot of the companies that benefited so heavily from those from COVID like Zoom or Peloton have essentially kind of come back down a little bit. I think they're higher than they were before the pandemic, but they're definitely not as high as that as the peaks.

00:04:45:18 - 00:05:08:06
Speaker 1
But I do want to remind listeners here that if an industry is affected, think of what industry is positively being affected, somebody is negatively being affected, what is the positive? So you hear Meta being affected. Means maybe more people are spending less time on their on their on their phone or on their computer, on their social media, and they're doing more activities.

00:05:08:12 - 00:05:32:05
Speaker 1
But then on the other side, you can think like, well, if people are leaving their house more, they're traveling more. Who's positively really affected by that? And you see really positive results from Airbnb. Right? And then their their stock is growing, their booking has not only rebounded, but is even doing better than it was pre-COVID. And they even going to announce and say, hey, we encourage work from home.

00:05:32:05 - 00:06:03:12
Speaker 1
And we even say for three months out of the year, our employees can go work anywhere in the world. Not only can they work remotely in the U.S., but now they like, Hey, go work, go working in Airbnb somewhere else in the world for 90 days, you know. And I think that's interesting to say like, yes, like even even when like I want to make sure that like, yes, if there is a recession and companies do hire, do hiring freeze or take away your offer like that can possibly happen and it will happen.

00:06:03:12 - 00:06:26:21
Speaker 1
But I just want you to think, too, what are some companies that will be benefit from recessions? Right. And and I think a lot about like what? Oh, I started my career in the CPG industry, like when when people don't go out to eat anymore because they don't have the same disposable income, they go grocery shopping more. So then that affects the Coca-Cola, the Procter Gamble, you know, the Nestlé and the PepsiCo of the world.

00:06:26:21 - 00:06:45:00
Speaker 1
Right. And so with all that being said, I think is just important to be up to date with what's going on. Right. And be strategic. And if you have a good job or if you have a job and like as long as you don't hate it and is really affecting your mental health, stick there longer and maybe not quit until you have an offer in hands.

00:06:45:00 - 00:06:53:14
Speaker 1
But but as a college student, I just want you guys to think like there's always going to be hiring. There might not be as much hiring, but there's always going to be hiring.

00:06:54:10 - 00:07:22:02
Speaker 2
Right. The economy follows the laws of physics relatively closely. Right. For every action, there's an equal and opposite opposite reaction. And I'd say to your point, Daniel, that that's what you're seeing, right? Someone's benefiting somewhere. And again, it's I don't think we're we're approaching this nationwide, wide or worldwide shutdown. I just think where the hiring is happening is maybe shifting a little bit for right now.

00:07:22:05 - 00:07:41:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, that maybe tech. Again, the Googles and Metas and FAANGs of the world are not as strong as they were in 2021. And again, it's because 2021 was flip and crazy, right? All kinds of stuff was going on. But yeah, there are other companies in other places that will that will be amping up rates in the same way that others might be slowing them down.

00:07:41:12 - 00:08:01:16
Speaker 2
So all that is to say, again, is it does it mean it's a bad time to job change? It doesn't mean it's a bad time to be a student and try to find a job. What I think it means is just be calculated in your approach. Right. It's maybe the market isn't as ample as it was a year or two years ago in tech.

00:08:01:16 - 00:08:10:12
Speaker 2
But understand that a good you know, a good research plan might tell you where it is ample, right. Where where the you know, it's ripe for the harvest.

00:08:11:02 - 00:08:25:29
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know. That makes sense. So what do you think? You know, like if the big FAANG or MAANG companies are, you know, slowing hiring, what are some good options? Like what are some other types of companies that you would recommend looking into?

00:08:27:06 - 00:08:51:03
Speaker 2
Well, you kind of already started the conversation, right, that, you know, as maybe people get off of the Internet or social media and try to kind of get back into the world and experiencing it and and things of that nature. Right. What are the industries benefiting? You've already named a couple, right to travel. You know, the Airbnbs and Marriotts and airlines are seeing huge, huge returns and growth.

00:08:51:03 - 00:09:16:20
Speaker 2
And and I would say that I think that trend is going to continue for a couple of years, and that's probably where I'd start, is make a list of, you know, your passions and motivations and the skills you have and the kind of work you want to do. And then make another list of the companies that you think, you know, the data might suggest are going to be benefiting or growing over the next couple of years and see where, you know, see what kind of cross-pollination makes sense.

00:09:16:20 - 00:09:38:01
Speaker 2
But, you know, travel, transportation, um, I would even say that, you know, to some degree, like data center companies are not slowing down, right? They're tech related. But there's never been a bigger demand for data than there has right now. So there's a number of industries that I'd start with. It just depends on what you want to do.

00:09:38:08 - 00:10:04:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know, and I some industries again, I think is really important as whether a job seeker that's coming out of college or you're looking to transfer to stay really up to date with just current events and just the bigger picture because that also helps you understand like the industries or the markets that are that are just bound to grow because, you know, high tide rises all ships.

00:10:04:19 - 00:10:24:25
Speaker 1
And so even though the economy can be affected as a whole, there are pockets of the economy that are not as affected and benefit. And so I want to kind of just think about things, you know, we all know Fortune 500 companies and we aim for that. So like, if I think about like Tier one, we think about like FAANG companies or banking, right?

00:10:24:25 - 00:10:52:19
Speaker 1
And like, you know, or consulting. So like tech, banking, consulting tier really high demand like, a lot of people want to work for those companies like the Goldman Sachs, the MAANG companies, JPMorgan Chase. And we think about that. Then you have like maybe Fortune 500 companies and maybe even making it simplified. But here are some interesting areas where I've kind of really seen a lot of success with our clients is one.

00:10:53:18 - 00:11:15:26
Speaker 1
All right. As a major, thank you for listening to my podcast. I just let our career coaches know to open up their calendar for limited time only, limited spaces only, to our loyal podcast listeners. So if you are currently a STEM student looking for a job in the next 90 days or graduate in the next year, and you want our help schedule a call with our team for free for a free strategy session.

00:11:15:26 - 00:11:37:26
Speaker 1
Limited time only, link in the show notes. See you there, Unicorns. So like if you just type biggest unicorns in the United States or just biggest unicorns in the world, and if you don't know what a unicorn is, it’s a privately held company, so it's not a Fortune 500, which is not a publicly traded, privately held company that does over, that's valued at over $1,000,000,000.

00:11:37:26 - 00:11:58:28
Speaker 1
And there's so many of them nowadays. There's like so many of them and even some unicorns are bigger than Fortune 500 companies. Like as soon as they go public, they'll be Fortune 500 companies. And I think about within the unicorn space, look at fintech companies like Stripe, like like even PayPal, that's not necessarily a new company, even co-founded by Elon Musk.

00:11:58:28 - 00:12:28:28
Speaker 1
Right. That there's just a big demand for like a big growth in the in the in the fintech space in cash apps Venmo, all that area. I think to your point, just transportation and anything autonomous, driving. So like I can't even think of it anymore, but what's Tesla's competitor, lucid. Lucid or even. Yeah, all that technology, anything related to that space.

00:12:28:28 - 00:12:54:11
Speaker 1
So I just want to and then even below there. So if you're like, okay, so even even if unicorns are not it, another good list to attack is the INC 5000. And I don’t know how familiar you are with the INC 5000, but the INC 5000 are the fastest. The fastest, fastest 5000 companies, the fastest, the fastest 5000 companies in the United States.

00:12:54:23 - 00:13:16:29
Speaker 1
And as measured by growth, not by revenue. So Fortune 500 is measured by revenue, by total sales. So Walmart, ExxonMobil being the top companies. And then the INC 5000 is just fastest growing. So you have companies that are like quadrupling, 10Xing their business time after time. And the biggest thing slowing those companies down time and time again, it's just the people.

00:13:16:29 - 00:13:19:28
Speaker 1
So they're growing as fast as they can scale their teams.

00:13:21:18 - 00:13:59:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Again, I think there's plenty of news and information sources that will pop up with a quick Google search that are going to help you answer that question. Right. Like what are the growing industries and what companies are booming? And that's what I would recommend is, you know, spend an hour or two or three or 4 hours building up that short list and having the data to back it up in terms of, you know, what is the 2 to 3 out year, you know, outlook look like for a company like Airbnb and you know as somebody that places most of the clients I work with are are not students I work a lot with

00:13:59:21 - 00:14:27:00
Speaker 2
the mid-career professionals and help people transition. But all that is to say is, I mean, in the last six months, I've placed a handful of people, you know, into into firms that have significantly changed outlook inside of the first couple of months of them being there, right. A of couple people off the top of my head that you know that that got a pink slip within the first couple weeks of them being there and doesn't necessarily mean that they made a bad call.

00:14:27:00 - 00:14:48:09
Speaker 2
It just means, you know, researching to understand what the outlook of a firm might be is a really important part of that job search process. Right like well for you spend all the time networking and establishing relationships and spending time in an interview process to get a job there, make sure you feel confident about where they're going. That's not always easy to understand, but it's something worth trying.

00:14:48:16 - 00:15:08:25
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, I think absolutely. I think we have to think about the fact that when a company is hiring, they're making an investment. Right. And so are you as a job candidate. You're trading their time or your time for their money, and they may be paying you, but you're returning that with sweat equity. So you're investing your time.

00:15:09:03 - 00:15:26:03
Speaker 1
So you have to look at that as an investment. You have to do your your own due diligence and it's not just the company interviewing you. You should be interviewing them and doing your proper research. Right? Just like the companies will do background checks on you just because that companies would do referral checks, right? You have to do your own background checks.

00:15:26:03 - 00:15:54:26
Speaker 1
You have to do your own research. A really good. I especially, even for level entry roles I just encourage you if you're going applying or interviewing for a publicly traded company like read their annual report right now not the whole bible of a document but like the executive summary, the first 10 to 15 pages where the CEO writes a letter to the shareholders explaining, here's what happened last year, here's what's good, what we plan for next year.

00:15:54:26 - 00:16:12:14
Speaker 1
Here's what we look at 5 to 10 years out. Here's our SWOT analysis, right? Here's our financials, right. Learn how to read basic financials to understand the health of the business. And I think that's going to give you a really good insight into the health of the company.

00:16:12:14 - 00:16:41:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, again, there's there's lots and lots of places where you can go get that type of information. Again, I think, you know, the I don't want to say that like a a quarterly finance report to the SCC is where I would tell everybody to start just because I know that some people will be intimidated by that. But there's there's tons of companies out there, there are websites out there that break that stuff down into a quick first look, kind of out of at a glance health report.

00:16:41:16 - 00:16:50:22
Speaker 2
And that's what you're looking for, right, is what's the outlook in the next couple of quarters? What’s the outlook in the next couple of years. And yeah, it's it's exactly right.

00:16:51:25 - 00:17:07:00
Speaker 1
Adam, so like as we wrap this up, like what advice do you have for for job seekers both you know starting now and mid-career professionals as they you know they brace themselves for what the future can could look like if we go into a depression.

00:17:08:09 - 00:17:31:22
Speaker 2
Well yeah. I mean, I would say a recession slash depression right is right. Let's just say a significant downturn in whatever the economy economy in, let's say, you know, the world's largest U.S. is is it's it's going to be not all that surprising advice. I would tell you that a lot of things happen when you hit recession era times.

00:17:31:22 - 00:17:46:08
Speaker 2
And, you know, there's a huge, huge number of candidates in the market right now. And I think, you know, jobs will be harder to come by, but most likely there will be less people looking for them. So that's the first thing to keep in the back of your mind is that typically those two things kind of ebb and flow together.

00:17:47:29 - 00:18:18:27
Speaker 2
That being said, it's it's just going to mean again, like for students and mid-career professionals, you need to be strategic about a move. Don't again, like I would say obviously protect your mental health but I would really caution against quitting before you got an offer in hand somewhere else. Right. For students that aren't going to have that offer, I would say have a targeted job search strategy where, you know, you've got tier one companies.

00:18:18:27 - 00:18:38:21
Speaker 2
Like when we coach students, what we talk about is have a short list of your of your dream companies or tier, you know, what we call it is plan A companies have a plan B and a plan C also. Right. That it doesn't necessarily mean that 100% of your time should be trying to get into the most exclusive companies.

00:18:38:21 - 00:19:02:08
Speaker 2
A job is better than not a job, right? And especially in a recession or even a depression, having something on your resume says a heck of a lot about what you could do as opposed to having nothing. So, you know, have have your have your plan A, have your plan B, have your plan C again, plan C could just be, you know, the mom and pop shop down the street that has an engineering position open that you can do.

00:19:03:15 - 00:19:24:10
Speaker 2
But that's what I mean, is maybe just leveling expectations a little bit as a student to make sure that you get something because something is going to allow you to build experience, start your networking, you know, get paid and again is better than nothing. So number one is have a plan. Number two is double down on accomplishments and results.

00:19:24:10 - 00:19:50:01
Speaker 2
Right. Because it's when markets get competitive and candidates get competitive in and hiring gets competitive, it's it's the people that create ROI that win. That is the short version. Right. I don't really care at the end of the day where you went to school, you know, your GPA could be a four it could be a three if if you have a tendency and can prove on a piece of paper or in an interview process that you can create return on investment.

00:19:50:07 - 00:20:10:12
Speaker 2
That is what will get you hired. That is what the companies are going to care about. And again, in hyper competitive markets, we want to hire people that can create value. Right. I'm happy that you can do your job like the average person can do your job. I want people that know how to get in and do things better than they were before they showed up.

00:20:10:12 - 00:20:41:18
Speaker 2
So, you know, be strategic with moves and the number two is is communicate clearly how you can create ROI for a customer, whether that's an employee or team member or manager. But sell that stuff, it's really important. And then I think maybe the last point is, is build strength on strength, right? Especially if you're considering a transition or or you're a student coming into a, you know, a first job or an internship is you need to be really good at value propping what you're best at, right?

00:20:41:18 - 00:20:58:06
Speaker 2
You don't have to be good at everything. And you don't need to be a jack of all trades to get a job, you know, at a tier one or a plan A company, you need to be good at one, maybe two or three things tops. And that's got to be the way you pitch is like this is the thing I can do for you, right?

00:20:58:06 - 00:21:23:06
Speaker 2
This is the skill that I have that I'm better, better at than other people. And then here are my results to prove that I'm not I'm not lying. So think about how you proposition yourself with skills again. You know, I think sometimes students get into the the weird perception that they have to be really good at everything. You know, the formal mindset of like, I can learn anything, do everything and, you know, solve every single problem.

00:21:23:06 - 00:21:36:25
Speaker 2
And I can just encourage students to like, hey, like, that's it's not really how the real world works, right? If I want an expert in CAD, I'm going to go get one, right? If I want an expert in some other thing, we'll figure out how to go get it. You. You need to have your niche.

00:21:37:13 - 00:21:54:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, like, that's awesome. I mean, I think it's important to to if you're more of a generalist and generally smaller businesses are better fit in the beginning. And then if you're more of a specialist, you know, you can look out into a more specialist world. So I think what you're saying, Adam, makes so much sense and I so much appreciate it.

00:21:54:00 - 00:22:01:24
Speaker 1
Adam. I know what's the best way for people listening to this podcast. I want to learn more about you, your coaching services, anything else?

00:22:02:20 - 00:22:26:07
Speaker 2
Probably signal flares I have a pretty big window in my office and I pay close attention to people that shoot those things up. No, just kind of came out of nowhere. I would say the best way is, is definitely through LinkedIn. I am fairly responsive with with direct messages. If again, if we've never met right near total stranger, I'd say just send me a, you know, a targeted network message.

00:22:26:07 - 00:22:52:15
Speaker 2
And try to, try not to sell me something in the first couple sentences and I'll probably respond to you. But yeah, Broda coaching is the other method. Anybody in the world can, can hop on the Internet and go to our site. It's brodacoaching.com and then there are ways to get in in connection with with me or someone on our team either through an email you can submit an email directly to our our inbox or you can set up a call for free for 15 minutes.

00:22:52:15 - 00:23:01:25
Speaker 2
And sometimes it might take a little while to, to, to get to me. But in terms of the number of months, because the line is long right now, but that is an option you have.

00:23:02:05 - 00:23:10:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. Now I know when you first said signal flares, I thought it was like a new website, kind of like a link tree. And again, I never heard of it.

00:23:10:24 - 00:23:16:10
Speaker 2
It sounds awesome. I think I should go trademark that right now. Sign flares. That's a good one.

00:23:17:03 - 00:23:32:06
Speaker 1
Love it, Adam. You're the man. Thank you so much for coming here and and for everybody that was listening. Catch you guys on the next episode. Well, if you're listening to this, you have made it to the end of the episode in the time of distraction. The fact that you're listening to this means you truly care about your career.

00:23:32:06 - 00:23:48:03
Speaker 1
And to reward you for that, my team and I will be hosting three one on one Strategy Session for podcast listeners only. So if you want to get a strategy session to speak with me or someone on my team, look at the link in the show notes to schedule your free call. Thank you so much for listening and catch you guys on the next episode.